Warren and Deaton clash over abortion, Ukraine in combative debate

Senators Elizabeth Warren and John Deaton met in Springfield on Thursday evening for their second of two scheduled debates.

After a tense meeting earlier this week, the second debate was much more combative. Both candidates battled moderators and each other for more speaking time, raised allegations of corruption and painted a bleak picture of the Senate if their opponent won.

Warren, the Democratic incumbent and well-known progressive, is fighting for her third term. Deaton, a personal injury attorney, is seeking elected office for the first time. The hour-long debate, sponsored by New England Public Media and GBH News, covered a wide range of topics.

Below are insights from three key discussion points.

abortion

Deaton, running as a moderate candidate, has repeatedly claimed he is a greater supporter of reproductive care and abortion rights than his opponent. He has stated that he supports codifying Roe v. Wade would vote and was asked what provisions he would include in a potential bill that could attract broader GOP support.

While Deaton said he couldn’t speculate on what his potential colleagues would vote for, he expressed support for existing abortion laws in Massachusetts. Deaton claimed that six people were responsible for overturning Roe v. Wade: Donald Trump, Supreme Court Justices Brett Kavanaugh, Amy Coney Barrett and Neil Gorsuch, the late Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, and Warren. Deaton’s attack was based on the argument that Warren said in 2013 that she would push Reid to abolish the filibuster even though she knew Republicans would use its abolition to pack the Supreme Court with anti-abortion judges.

“Their fingerprints are all over this Roe decision,” Deaton said.

Warren countered that Deaton had expressed support for Gorsuch in the past, even though Gorsuch was a known skeptic of Roe v. Wade was. Warren attacked Deaton for defending the filibuster, saying it is currently blocking Democratic lawmakers from codifying abortion rights.

“If Republicans have control of the Senate, there will be no bill that repeals Roe v. Wade makes it the law of the land. It doesn’t matter whether we have 50, 51 or 52 votes for it. With Republicans in control of the Senate, we will not have a bill codifying Roe v. Wade,” Warren said.

Deaton said Democrats could have codified it in 2022 if they had control of both houses of Congress and the presidency. He claimed Warren had not worked to rally support for such a move. Warren said her opponent needed to “double-check his facts” and talked about running for a bill that would codify Roe v. Wade.

Help for Ukraine

The two candidates were asked about America’s support for Ukraine in deterring Russian attacks.

“The Ukraine war is the single biggest issue of this election cycle,” Deaton said. “One mistake and we’re in World War III.”

Deaton said his skepticism about further funding for Ukraine stems from the lack of a coherent plan from American leadership. He complained that America is spending hundreds of billions of dollars, which has led to a “stalemate at best” in Ukraine. Deaton gave no indication of further support, saying that he supports democracy but that his vote “has to be earned.” Describing lawmakers in Washington who say the plan is for Ukraine to defeat Russia by a large majority, he described them as “warmongers.”

Deaton said the money sent to Ukraine could have been better spent on domestic priorities like expanding Medicaid and universal preschool.

Warren shared her experiences visiting Ukraine and serving on the Senate Armed Services Committee. She argued that Ukraine must continue to receive strong American support because it is “fighting the frontline war for democracy.” Warren said Russian President Vladimir Putin would be emboldened by a victory in Ukraine and would continue waging wars of aggression across Europe.

“Anyone who thinks that we can turn our backs on Ukraine and that Vladimir Putin will not take the whole country and after he takes this country, another and another and another, is just kidding themselves,” said Warren.

Warren praised President Biden’s efforts to stand with Ukraine. She accused “extremist” Republicans of opposing aid to the country because of their loyalty to Trump.

East-West rail transport

Despite the animosity that dominated much of the debate, Warren and Deaton found some common ground when asked about the possible expansion of passenger rail service that would connect Boston to western Massachusetts.

Warren said she was “fully confident” in the idea and claimed it would transform the state’s economy. She spoke about working with Rep. Richard Neal, who represents much of western Massachusetts. The two have been working on this for years and have the support of Governor Maura Healey.

Deaton also said expanding passenger rail service would be extremely beneficial for the region and the state as a whole. He talked about how this could help alleviate the housing affordability crisis in Greater Boston and accelerate the growth of renewable energy in western Massachusetts.

But there was still plenty of room for disagreement. Warren blamed years of Republican leadership for inadequate investment in infrastructure and praised the Inflation Reduction Act passed under Biden’s leadership for its focus on infrastructure spending. She pledged to continue working to secure funding for an east-west rail network, but said that depends on Democrats gaining control of Congress.

The conversation turned more explicitly to the topic of housing. Both agreed that Massachusetts is facing a crisis, but Warren said the solution was to use government to create more housing and criticized the idea of ​​”leaving the solution to the private market.” Deaton accused Warren of believing that greater government involvement is the solution to all society’s problems. He said he wanted to “cut red tape” and give tax credits to builders.

“The bottom line is that government is usually the problem,” Deaton said.

Bonus: Lightning Round

In the final minutes of the debate, Warren and Deaton were both faced with a series of lighter, quicker “lightning round” questions.

The two were asked what their favorite places in Western Massachusetts besides Springfield were. Warren said hers was Jacob’s Pillow, Deaton said his was Pittsfield.

You were asked to name a political role model who is currently in office. Deaton nominated Amy Klobuchar as Senator from Minnesota, Warren nominated Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

Warren and Deaton were asked whether they support Question 4, a ballot measure in Massachusetts that asks voters to decide whether some psychedelics should be legalized and regulated to a limited extent. Warren said she supported it, Deaton said not.

Both candidates grew up outside of Massachusetts. They were asked about one thing they didn’t appreciate about the state until they moved there. Deaton said it was the seafood, Warren said it was the changing autumn leaves.

What candy is given out on Halloween? Warren said she was a fan of Mounds and Almond Joy. Deaton prefers Reese’s trophies.

Finally, the two were asked what their consolation meal would be if they lost the race. Deaton said it would be chicken nuggets with his daughter. Warren said she was going to Frank’s Steak House in Cambridge.